Episode 2: Zarina Kay, Artist


Episode 2: Zarina Kay, Artist


The Crow Museum of Asian Art: https://crowcollection.org/

Mastermind Meditation:  http://mastermindmeditate.com/

KTC Meditation:  https://ktcdallas.org/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zarinakay__/

Zarina’s website: https://www.zarinastudio.com/

Organic Spicy Red Pepper Hummus:




Hey Zarina thank you so much for being here today. I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with me this morning.

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited we got to meet and we get to do this. This is great.

I know. I loved meeting you. It's actually kind of a fun story. I met you at the Crow Museum during a meditation event and I saw your phone. That was what was interesting. I noticed something while we were talking. I looked at your screen saver, this beautiful image, and I just complimented you on that pretty picture you had on your phone. Do you remember this?

Yeah yeah. And it's funny because I never go out and so I saw this meditation and art thing happening at the Crow. That's pretty good for me to go.

Then when you kind of started talking to me--it's happening—I’m socializing with someone. This is great. She likes meditation. This is awesome. Yeah. The conversation. It was great.

It did. It did I. I love that you were so open, and quick shout out to the Crow and Mastermind for their collaborative efforts. Mastermind is a meditation and mindfulness studio here in Dallas, and they have a wonderful partnership with the Crow Museum. So we'll put show notes together at the end with links to both of those entities. But yeah that's how we met. And from there I did a studio visit at your studio which was phenomenal so thank you for that. So that's really our connection.

We've met once. I've had a studio visit with you, learned a little bit more about your work. Your work is so beautiful to me just visually. It spoke to me directly. That's why I had to ask about you and what you're up to. So why don't you start us out by telling us about you.

Thank you for that introduction.

So I'm an artist. I am based in Dallas. And you know a lot of my work right now is changing into more of a spiritual abstraction. And I'm a classically trained artist and so I grew up classically trained you know. Still lives, the Renaissance copies, x y z and now that I'm kind of growing into my own I  feel that that's not really enough for me.

And so to go deeper into my own spirit is kind of where my work is, a spiritual abstraction, and I live and work here and I get to meet awesome people like you and I connect with people through my art. So it's amazing. It's really a cool thing that I'm getting to experience.

Amazing. So tell us about when you first started making art. Were you a little kiddo or how did how did that journey start with you with art?

I remember drawing fairies a lot when I was younger. Like when I was eight to 10. And apparently they were quite good. So my mom put me into like classical art academy.

So I studied with a Russian art teacher. You know he grew up in St. Petersburg, studied art there. So it's a very classical discipline type of learning for a young age.

So I started doing art when I was 13 all the way up till 20 probably. And then that's really where I grew quite a bit with my art in that age range.

So tell us about your 20s.

What was what was happening that was changing for you, that changed your art?

I moved to Denton briefly and I went to school at University of North Texas, and I don't think it was a school for me and I ended up quitting art school actually and it was quite a big ordeal. But it was something that I felt like I had to do. So most of my 20s was kind of recuperating from that decision because I wanted something else. And now I'm studying art history. I feel like that's what's really made my artwork change so much in my 20s right now.

Because I am so inspired by so many different styles of work and I feel like I'm learning so much more and I really do feel like I'm in a growth learning stage you know which I don't know if a lot of people would say that about themselves.

You know I don't know. I don't know why I feel this way most of the time, but I just feel like I need to learn everything and at least right now like I just feel like a giant sponge when it comes to art and I want to do so many different things. So it's really hard for me to stick to one style which you see in my studio it's like a hundred different types of work.

It's interesting that you say that though because the style, the signature style, I see consistently running through your work. How would you…OK so so many different thoughts are coming about what I want to say. So I want to explore that, I want to explore how you describe the actual look and feel of your art. And then yeah let's start with that. Let me hear from you. If you had to describe the way it looks to somebody who's never seen it what would you say?

So how I would describe it…that's a very loaded question. If anybody was looking for my hand in the work, right, I would say it's very textural and very technical probably. It's very textural driven work now and there's a lot of elements of technical ability as well that I try to blend those two ideas in and I think ultimately they kind of give off a very spiritual vibe which is my ultimate end game. And maybe that's the thread that people see in my work. It's very spiritual. I try to make work that either highlights one element you know like a plant growing from a seed, and I try to just express that or make these kind of like intuitive paintings where you feel emotion and spirituality and Zen or what have you in the work…so maybe that's kind of the thread that feels so right to me.

And I think because you are tapped into that as you're creating it, that expression carries over so that when people are viewing it I can say for myself it immediately connected to my spirit. So if you're feeling connected and spiritually aligned as you're making it, that's what you're expressing to us. That's what we get from it. Do people speak to you about that when they see your art? Did they talk about what it brings up in them?

So for a long time when I was younger I didn't know that was what was happening.

And I would probably get a person every few months you know kind of break down to me about the work and they would feel it. And I think I've really blocked it out for a long time because it made me feel too much. It was too much. So not only do I get to make art but also move this person. I was not able to equip that feeling. So I kind of wasn't nurturing that side of it. And then these last few months have been really, really intense for me and really hard honestly. But it has also gave birth to basically no boundaries anymore. I feel like now I can't help but feel so moved when people tell me stuff like that. And that's because I'm in that place and I'm also expressing it so vulnerably and so much of my new work that it just kind of pierces through people and it's kind of incredible to see you know when I have people come and look at the new work that I'm making. They're like, Oh I get it.  And then and then they go off on their own and they tell me their own stories and how they connect to it. And it's perfect. It's exactly what I was thinking. It was exactly what I was feeling. So I kind of like let go of that veil of, that veil of kind of vulnerability. There you go. You share. What's really happening. It's connecting with so many people and now I don't, I can't really look back. I can't go back. It is incredible when people really do tell me they feel the work which is something different because it's one thing to see the work, it's another thing to feel it.

You know I really appreciate what you're sharing because it's an element of intimacy, right, both for you to be that connected again just in your own process while you're making it but then open to the receiving aspect that you're sharing your soul and you're helping others connect to their souls when they see this work. It's a really special gift. I can see that it could be at least in the initial stages of awareness of that “Like whoa this is really, is this really what I'm supposed to do? This is my gift?

I mean it's really insane. I have been not only overwhelmed with the things that have been happening but the byproduct of that insanity that comes with. That amount of vulnerability and then that observation that just kind of bleeds through me now like I don't really have a choice, like if I make work that’s maybe a little bit more cut off it doesn't do it for me anymore. It doesn't do it for the people who are watching me anymore because I gave them a hundred percent. The last few months has been really intense. And there are days I wake up and I'm like I can't believe I'm spending the rest of my life going deeper and deeper into emotions, in spirit, and then try to connect with billions of people. That's my job through my art. It's really mind boggling.

It's so incredible. I really appreciate you and the awareness you have of this really, really special gift. So let's connect some dots for people about the intersection of the meditation journey, and I'm just going to be curious to find out how much it weaves into your art process. So can you talk about when you first got interested in meditation and what that looked like?

So I began meditating or kind of going down that spiritual path when I was 16 17, and I started picking up different books on kind of the concept of what Meditation brings. Right. That's one thing. You know you got to read about it. You have to know what you're doing, in my opinion. That was how I started. And I got to know kind of what the after effects of meditation could be and the benefits of it. So I started doing it at 16 or 17 and it grew from there. I went to a couple of meditation centers with groups of people which is also really good to do if you've never done it because you can kind have the help the community by you. Or you know I would go on YouTube and listen to sound Meditations by myself before sleep. So that's kind of how it grew. And then I became Buddhist at KTC which is located in Irving, and it's a Tibetan Buddhist group. And you know I learned Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetan meditation and that is kind of where I started to really pick up more refining skills in my meditation practice. And then it just kind of bloomed from there.

So what does your practice look like today? How do you practice? Do you have a set time and tell us some more about what it looks like practically in your world?

So honestly and practically my meditation kind of comes in waves and I do so many kinds. And I think that's what helps really keep me going. So if I'm in a very spiritual deep place I will do a Tibetan Buddhist meditation which you know is usually followed by Tibetan mantras, me reading about Tibetan literature or things like that. I try to engulf myself in that moment and then most day to day it's meditation, its sound meditations on YouTube (they're my favorite),. I mean I fall asleep to them constantly. I love them. There are times where I meditate before making art and I try to meditate on the topic so that I'm only putting out a certain energy or I'm putting out the most amount of that energy. You know sometimes I feel like yoga is my meditation as well. I think all of it. I think all of it is like Zen and meditation. You can meditate all day.

I think meditation is a way to kind of center yourself.

And you can carry that with you all day. So that's kind of my my statement on it and I love it.

I love it. I think you're able to use the tools that you have and it's not like it's the same practice every single day. But it sounds like you've gotten familiar enough with different styles of meditation for those people who are new to meditation and don’t know a lot about Tibetan Buddhist meditation, can you walk anyone sort of through what that is like for you?

I mean it can be complicated or simple like anything. I think if I went into the complicated parts of it I think it would scare some people off. I'm just kidding. Really it's sitting down on the cushion keeping your spine kind of straight. For me that's always been a really hard--keeping my backup. Which is you know something that is really important for the prana energy to go up and down. And for those who don't know energy, it's the energy all around us and we have it inside of us that can tap into it any time. And, so you want to keep your spine straight and your eyes kind of lowered.

And it's really hard to do explain…

You're doing a great job. No no no. This is perfect.

Yeah. Keep your eyes lowered and your hands on your knees, legs crossed, and we stare at a fixed point on the ground and you just.

Let the thoughts come in and out and meditate and try to center yourself. And that's probably the easiest way I could describe it. Of course we could go into so many different, little aspects of it, and try to complicate it but really it is all about just sitting on the cushion you know just showing up sitting on the cushion and letting yourself take a break from what's happening around you and then meditating and giving yourself that space to let your mind relax.

So what do you think would happen if you didn't meditate or have any of these practices? You mentioned the sound meditations the yoga what if that left your world? What would your art be like, do you think?

I don't know if I would have stuck with it without a spiritual practice. Really great question. I don't think I would be the same person at all. And, I think a lot of life is all about discipline. Like if you keep showing up if you keep doing something right, you know most of life is a formula. And I think that meditation for so many people has been proven to help them, especially like if you're more like me, who’s a little more emotional and sensitive to life. It helps balance things out and it helps you keep going, and the discipline that comes along with meditating or any sort of practice like that, the benefits are full. And I think it's benefited me so much in my life because I don't think I would even imagine a person without a spiritual practice without a discipline. In meditation, you know what I mean like I can't even process that person--I don't know who that is. I think I'd be crazy. Honestly.

I love that you're bringing up this idea of discipline because you're right--to have a spiritual meditation practice or meditation practice--and I will say this to anyone listening-- that there's so many forms of meditation that we haven't even talked about yet. We're just talking about your particular brand and beautiful practice of Buddhist meditation but there are secular types of meditation. And so for what ever thing that someone is drawn to, the practice itself is as one of discipline. Right. And and then the connection that I'm finding here to the fact that you're an artist and art is itself a discipline. You can't just Oh I think I'll paint today and then maybe you know maybe I'll paint again in two weeks or something. You make your living as an artist and so there's got to be I would think a connection there between the discipline of your your practice and also of your art making. What would you say about that? I'd love to hear more about that connection.

I think I think with years of…I'm still quite young.

How old are you?

I'm 25. I've been I've been in the meditation game you know spiritual game and our game for six years seven years. I would say and it really is all about not beating yourself up when you don't want to sit on the mat. And when you have that discipline it's just about showing up no matter what like keep showing up, whether it's a five minute meditation or 20 minute meditation. And for me that has translated into my art. It's helped me make art every day. It's a five minute sketch or 20 minute sketch or organize my prints and paintings or sit down and read. You know what I mean, like something to give it life every day. Because the routine is so beneficial and I think I think everyone knows life is really hard. Life is really hard. And it's really kind of brutal and beautiful at the same time. And having these disciplines and routines, and these things like meditation I mean it's like we have this incredible power inside of us and it's mostly given birth to by discipline.

You know what I mean like we won't know unless we show up and I think a huge problem, and I know you can have a problem with this, the branding of meditation the branding of Buddhism or any sort of kind of Zen type of lifestyle, that people think it's like this. You're just spending all this time, you meditate. Life's easy or because you meditate you're gonna be okay to go but it's not like that. That's not how discipline works that's not how anything that's usually good for you. You're not going to usually see things three weeks in. You know you have to show up quite a bi--a year two years three years four years. It's a lot like brushing your teet--you're not going to stop brushing your teeth when you're 70 you know you need to keep doing it every day. It needs to be become a part of your life cycle, to better yourself.

You know when it gives you a hundred percent.

Yes, I do know what you mean.

It's essential. And I think that it speaks to where you are on your journey in terms of how integrated and central it is to how you how you operate in the world. Because when I asked you if you could imagine yourself not doing it you really couldn't when I asked that. Was that a journey though to get to that point of having it feel so integrated? When you first started to take yourself back to when you were a teenager, was that somewhat of a process to get you to the point where it is an established routine?

Yeah. When I was younger it's it was harder to show up because it's you’re a kid. Yeah what 17 year old really wants to meditate all the time? I mean I did but it's also there's so much other stuff happening that I didn't understand life. I feel like now meditation has become like I said brushing my teeth in the morning or drinking my coffee to get me go because without it and now without some sort of spiritual practice every day, I don't function at my highest degree.  And I have too much on the line like I'm young, I'm trying to make it as an artist.

The meditation keeps me balanced and it keeps me going so I can perform. When I was younger it was almost like let's see what this does. You know more of a curiosity.  And that's okay. I do believe that there should be people who are like ‘Oh let's see how meditation affects me.’ And then maybe they like it and then they go for it.  But now it's because of the context of meditation has changed for me. For me it's like I said it's it's a discipline. It's something that I wake up and it helps me know what I'm doing throughout the day and tomorrow.  It helps me now and it gives me that kind of stability in a very unstable job. And like I don't know. You know I would like to know how much I'm going to make every month with my work but I don't. And I have to stay stable. I have to stay mindful and meditative in Zen you know. And that's what meditation brings me now comparatively.

That's, I'm so glad you brought that up because that is another really really unique and interesting aspect of your life, right. It’s that there are so many people that call themselves artists and they are and listen you know at one point in time when I was making art on a more consistent basis I called myself that too. I don't I don't claim that now because I don't make the right time for it. But being an artist, but then being able to go the one step further and support yourself with your art. That is a different level of engagement. And it's the entrepreneur in you, it's how you live in the world. And so I'm curious about that-- do you think that the meditation practice because you're alluding to it--that it's giving you that stability to kind of be in a place of flux and uncertainty?

But how else has that helped you to be the entrepreneur that comes with being the artist that makes money in the world?

I think it's I think that you know I was always kind of an entrepreneur.

Ever since I was really young I started like a T-shirt company when I was 15 and I was like I'm pretty sure it was illegal. Now thinking back. But I'd like make all these t shirts with art on it. You know when I was 15 in the middle of class and like I was walking around school with you know like two dollars for the today.

I’ve always had this like entrepreneurial spirit and I think a lot of people who grew up with me know that I've always been really open to selling my work which I started doing at a really young age because I knew that would mean I would have to actually--not only would you sell the work but I'd have to give it away. You know that whole attachment.

Mm hmm yeah.

So I think the more I detach from my work… because I believed in a higher state of art making and I knew that I could only get there if I let it go. And I knew that the money I would make from the sales of the work and alluding to the entrepreneurial side would feed that that side of me that higher self because I could go and put that money behind more work and that's what I've always done. I've done that since I was 15. And anyone that knows me knows that that's been a huge part of my life--is trying to budget and manage my income off my work so I can do it full time. And if I'm being really honest the meditation reading Buddhist books or reading Zen books about not really needing much really you know at the end of the day you don't need a whole lot. And that's really helped me not spend.  Because I'm a young girl. I live in Dallas but I don't spend you know--I spend on only things that that help me in my in my art and I do think the meditation the Mindfulness helps me not break that pattern. Only spending on things that will benefit me in the long term. And I do believe that Buddhism really has helped me in that area of my life and it's helped me grow because I don't have a gallery that sells my work for me. It's all me. So when I check my bank account I have to be mindful and I do think of the meditation and the spiritual practice and spiritual texts and all that are are like ingrained in my body now you know like I don't ever want to spend on anything because it doesn't really matter you know. What matters is the artwork that is going to be able to make you know.

You're talking about attachment and really detachment right. You're talking about letting go,you talked in the very beginning about always wanting to be a student of of your art and growing and never thinking that you know you're kind of there. So I hear the beginner's mind in that. So I'm hearing so many elements of meditation and mindfulness that really bleed beyond the actual art making. They are a part of you. I'm not really finding or seeing any part that's not that's not affected by that that process. Yeah. And just the awareness of where your money is going. There are a lot of people out there that have real pockets of disengagement and it's fine. I mean we're all learning and growing. But in how we spend our money and how we choose to spend our time and the awareness that you really have all of the things you need already inside you and that your art is both this act of giving and receiving that you you are giving it or you're giving it away but you're you're making it so that it can be received by somebody.  So there's that that yin and the yang there's that ebb and that flow of of life that's happening through your process. It's it's quite beautiful that that this is your life. I think I am just impressed by it and I'm marveling really at it. I think it's it's a beautiful gift in life that you have embraced you.

It's you know I I've given up a lot for you know detached from a lot of things.

Talk about that. What what what have what's been the sacrifice to live this particular life that you have?

When I was younger even, when I was like 16 or 17, because I think, I don't know, you know there's very few things that I'll say that I was really I don't know how it happened but when I was 13, I knew that I wanted to be an artist from the get go. I was like OK I want to do this. And something in me hit me that was like ‘This is gonna be really hard and you're going after everything to do this.’ And I just I remember I remember that time I can't remember the day but I remember that time and I know the exact feeling I can always go right back to it of being like OK yeah let's do it you know would sacrifice everything. So even when I was 16 17 you can ask my closest friends I was in bed at 10 o'clock so I could be up in the morning painting. And I never went out because I knew that I couldn't do it and I wouldn't go out with my friends because I would save my money so that I could spend on art supplies, and I was never broke or anything but it was like any extra income to spend on clothes or outings or travels or trips or whatever. You know it's hard when you're young especially when you're a young girl and you see like all this materialism right out of your eyes and you want to you want to do that you know that. That was probably one of the hardest things that came from the growth of my work and it was really hard for a long time but then now I see where I'm at and I wouldn't--I mean I get to paint all day and I get to draw and I get to do I get to live my life on my own accord and I get to design my day. However its been like really hard 17 to 22 was probably really challenging but now it's worth it. You know now I have so much more value, I take this on, those clothes those events those days they're gone. But this is here and now and I just feel like with you know with the detachments brought in so much more fruit for me to enjoy. But yeah there is even a time that I moved into the woods and I lived on three acres by myself and you.

Tell us more about that.

Yeah I went and found an amazing artist studio in the woods and an artist had actually built it for herself but she was open to renting it out to me so I moved out there. No Wi-Fi no Internet no no nothing no cell service. And it was so hard to find and didn't even have security on the doors. So it was really kind of cool you know to be like so close to the city but no one knew I was there and I think once you're in the woods for about eight months and you're Buddhists and then kind of snaps and you're like oh maybe I should be a nun because I stopped making art. I really did for a long time, I even detached from my art making


Yeah. Because I really wanted to be a nun but you know when I really wanted to go through with it, I was I was told that probably wasn't the right calling for me right now in my life.

So gosh now I want to do a part two with you about the possible nunnery. Yeah. No that's so fascinating so you really explored a lot during that process and even being to the point of being able to detach and let go of the thing that felt like the most essential part of you. I mean that's really coming full circle and then to be able to come back to it with that awareness that oh yes, in fact it's really here for me because I've even let it go and it still comes back right. That's that's like a further validation that that this is what's meant for you. How would you if you had to talk to someone that was perhaps an artist but not necessarily--just someone who felt that they had a gift in the world but they were not at the place of fully executing it to the level that you are living your your your gift?

What what would you say to someone like that?

Buy the ticket take the ride.

You know if you want to do it you want to do anything whether it's creative athletic something that's goal driven. You know what you're really going up against you know. Creativity is like poison because you start anew. If you don't it's it's like, if you don't get what you want right away you want to quit.

And you have to change your mind frame. And I think if anybody who really wants to do it long term if they if they're creative they're passionate they need to really know what they're getting themselves into. It's not you're not going to bear fruit in six months.

You know it's going to take a long time. But if you want it then go get it.

You know and know where you're at. Like I think a lot of people come in with egos tiny egos and sometimes I have to watch myself.

OK I really want to come from a place of honesty and vulnerability and really know where I'm not in my in my space and knowing where you are and where to start is an amazing place because then you're like you can be humbled because I think there's so many egos--I want to be an artist.

I want to do this with my life. Blah blah blah blah blah. Here are all my ideas.

I'm just like No what’s the last book you picked up. You know what..it's not like you have to know anything to make art. But I do believe building a foundation and so that is recommendation to build your foundation. You know you can't build an empire you can't do anything so beautiful so amazing like that in a month. You know I mean you. Art is like a journey. It's not a product. It's not I don't know.

I don't. I don't think anybody who does things that are creative try to make a product. They're just trying to. They're trying to make art. They're trying to make creativity. They're trying to be creative and what's a byproduct of creativity is is work. And they shouldn't be doing something for the aspect of work. They should be doing it to be creative and they need to create constantly for years. And then they can take a step back and be like Okay what is this.  What am I doing. You don't really know where you're at and you want to go.

I could go on that for ever. Because it's so important to know where you're at and you just start. Just start. Like figure out where you want to be, get where you are at and then go and don’t stop until you get there.

I love this. And the other element of what I'm hearing from you is an element of self trust. I feel that you you really believe in yourself and you have a trust in this bigger picture. And I know we're getting close to our time. But if can you speak about this element in you do you do you recognize that as well as an element of trusting something in yourself?


Like I've said before earlier I don't know how much money I make every month. And then after being like oh I'm a human being living in society you know I want to I need to eat. And I need to sleep and I need a place to work. And I think I'm at the point now where I know that I've been doing this for a good amount of time that I just trust that I'm on the right path and you have to trust yourself in other things.

I don't know if its necessarily trust is within me. I think I think I think I believe in myself and I trust myself to get up and work every day. I think that's where my trust is. I get up go to work and I know I'm going to. I know I'm going to work hard but I do believe I trust more in the people around me who support me because I've seen them support me for years and I think that trust is what helps me wake up and I think trust is like not only inside me but it's in everyone that's part of this journey for me. It's a conversation it's a dialogue I see now and see.

I love this because now we're we're we're entering into the element of relationships and how essential that is when you when you're mentioning the connection of others supporting you on your journey.  You’re not on this island because I would imagine being an artist is a solitary endeavor too. To a large degree you're there in your studio by yourself for hours but you're right it's, there is this other element and I'm I'm glad to hear you say that because I was actually forgetting about that piece in that and I think that it's important. I'm glad that you have a group of people it sounds like that have been following you for many years and supporting your work and I know that you're you're gaining more attention. In fact this is a good time for me to ask you where folks can find you online right.

You can follow me on Instagram to see that is Zarina Kay as the Zarina underscore Kay or you can check out my website Zarina studio dot com.

You can look at my portfolio and you can shop my Web site. And if you're in Dallas feel free to come by the studio and see my work in person. Yeah that's kind of my main places right now where you can see more.

It's beautiful

Do you do commissioned pieces for people.

Absolutely. I'm always grateful to have them because I love, I love working with people one on one. I think it helps really expand my eye. You know when someone's like can you paint this for me in a color that I've never used before so I get explore that color that I normally wouldn't have picked up or something along those lines. So yeah I love doing commissioned work. I love working with people and I know I've been working with clients here for many many years. So yeah.

Yes. Yeah. Please check her work out. I'm going to have links in the show notes and I'm almost picturing how great your work would be in an office in a big, nice big walls because the office environment can be so stressful for people. Your work is so calming and beautiful, and I think it would add an element really anywhere and a home of course but also in an office setting so I hope people check you out and I know that they will from this podcast. All right. I could talk to you for a long long time my dear but it looks like we are at the point of switching gears. I want to thank you though for talking a little bit about your work and the spiritual connection that's embedded in your work and not just your work but your work ethic, your life, who you are as a person. It's so evident that it's all connected and it's so refreshing to talk to you because you do feel like an authentic integrated person. And I'm so happy that I got to meet you.

It was divine destiny I love it. We click. You're amazing and I appreciate your support. I mean your interest in what I'm doing it really means a lot. It's one thing. Like you said I'm alone in the studio all day. So it's very hard to see if it's working. So when I've got confirmations like this, it's really great. And I appreciate appreciate all of it.

Appreciate you too. All right my dear we're going to turn corners here and we're entering into the segment called Hummus Among Us. And today we are going to be eating hummus that you have recommended. I asked you what your favorite hummus was and you you provided. You said it is the organic Pita Pal Hummus Spicy Roasted Red Pepper and that is what we have here today. We are chatting remotely so you're in your location. I'm in mine and I did the disclaimer the last time. So for those of you who do not like the sound of chewing and crunching which is perfectly reasonable, that's not what our mamas taught us. Right. We're supposed to keep that kind of quiet. Right. So if that's an idea that's rather something that is not pleasing to you,please do not listen for the first minute or so and then rejoin us because we're going to eat some hummus. Now I've got a cucumber with mine. What do you have with yours?


No way. Really.

I love it. OK so let's both of us take take some hummus and we're going to chew and eat here. So step away. If that makes sense for you.

I love cucumbers and how much I think it's in the best of both worlds, no.

I do too. And it is very interesting that we did not plan that. Was that your normal choice of hummus and dipping?

Yes. And sometimes I…am...

Oh no no no. Yes please. Take some. I never thought of this as a dental hazard. Yes. Well then well as you're chewing I will.

Let's go. People need to know I'm not that cool you know because…

You are so cool.

Right. Yeah. I just think carrots are cool too.  Cucumber. Just. You know it's just, you know the water level and the cucumber and like they pair so well with the Chickpeas Spicy Roasted Red Pepper.

You know this is. This is good hummus and I must I'm going to Yeah I must admit I haven't had this hummus before and I've had  a lot of hummus but this is a really this is a nice choice. It has quite a bit of a kick for a hummus, and when it said spicy roasted red pepper I didn't really believe it'd be that spicy but for people that like a little bit of spice I would really suggest you check this one out because you can tell it's different.

It's my favorite.

My favorite way to eat is with a piece of toast. Cucumber and a boiled egg.

Oh my goodness.

I mean it's a great breakfast.

You know I'm so glad you said that because--so another thing--disclosure for people listenin--we are talking in the morning and I never eat hummus in the morning. It was interesting because I was like, ‘Oh this is the segment we eat the hummus. I'm like wow I never eat hummus in the morning.’ But that's a really interesting and unique way to make it feel breakfast-y with the toast and the cucumber.

Do you ever play with avocado in that?

How could I forget. Yeah. With some avocado on there for sure. You like to layer it just so you know folks at home know how to do this.

Folks let the folks at home know how do you build your hummus sandwich.

I'm about to be a master chef.

If this thing doesn't work out for you

You know I'm really big into cooking now.

Oh do you? Are you really interested?

I actually had a friend the other day text me and told me I should try out for Master Chef. But I mean it's just a running joke because I'm really really into it. I like all these crazy food ideas that incorporate it. That's another podcast.

Oh but just give us the high level on that. What's what's the what's the deal there?

I want to make I want to. I won’t tell you my big idea. Because it's…so my work, I love the idea of making food that looks like. Too beautiful to eat. And it's my idea of making. Like this. Giant imagine like a giant black plate right, the size of a small baby.

Okay I got it.

Into the visual side of things. Then imagine making good dark chocolate.

Make a black toffee ice cream and that's the first layer. And then I want to make all these ice creams that I can mix inside of the plate to look like the galaxy.

Like a universe. I mean stuff like that. I know that sounds like that doesn't really make that much sense.

I mean it doesn't but it does.

But I can. I will make it one day soon and you can post it on your site. She was trying to explain it.

Oh yes. All right.

So here we see again the intersection of art and food and spirit coming together. I love that I found out this other fun fact about you. Well I appreciate you so very much in our time together. It does feel too short to me. I feel like I barely scratched the surface with you there. I know there's so much to you and so much layer and depth just like your work. That's exactly what I think of. And when I see your work I think I could just look at it and look at it and look at it and not ever get bored of it and find something new in it and just keep doing that. I feel like that is exactly what talking with you is like today-that I got I got Level 1 when I could I could come back and literally for every single answer right answer but just our back and forth for everything you said I could probably pick out twenty five things to go back and ask you about four. For every one brush stroke. You know I feel like you just got so much packed in to who you are and it is so cool and I hope we can talk again and even hang out and just that yeah. This will not be the end of our conversation.

Absolutely not. And I am so grateful that you're doing this you're really spreading positive awareness and that can really help and benefit all beings so I sincerely appreciate you taking time out of your life to do this. It's great. It's really really cool. And I think we can all agree that this is really going to help a lot of people.

And you're a sweet person. Well I appreciate this and I appreciate your kind words. I look forward to our next conversation. And till then I will say thank you and goodbye for now.

Bye. Nice talking to you.